Mysteries of the EuroVerse

EP10: The Road to the Grand Final

Sally Ann Triplett 18:41
(Prima Donna - Love Enough For Two - UK 1980 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8fUTTwOp40, Bardo - One Step Further UK 1982 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qy6S7LvtNc)
Tvorchi 31:26
(Heart of Steel- Ukraine 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neIscK1hNxs)
Size Matters With Josh Keating 36:44
 
In this episode, we talk about a core inequality in Eurovision's system for choosing the acts that make it to the Grand Final-- and how that's a reflection of a difficult balance that most international institutions have to face: How do you balance a commitment to fairness with the need to appeal to the larger countries that keep you funded.
We talk to two Eurovision acts: Sally Ann Triplett, who represented the UK twice, and Tvorchi, who represented Ukraine this past year in Liverpool.
Then Vox.com Senior Foreign Policy Correspondent Josh Keating stops by for a game focused on how the power imbalance at the core of Eurovision affects the music on the night of the Grand Final-- as Eurovision's largest countries ("the big 5") get to skip the semi-finals entirely. This very serious game is one we're calling "Size Matters with Josh Keating"
1.  I Want Your Love - Eduard Romanyuta - Moldova 2015 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px1MoZ0k7qY)2. Still In Love With You - Electro Velvet - UK 2015  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6r1tUhl1cQ)3. Divine - Sebastian Tellier - France 2008 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZQjBCvFd9E)4.  Let Me Love You - Tamara, Vrcak & Adrijan - North Macedonia 2008 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLpZyiROXzk)5. Blood & Glitter - Lord Of The Lost - Germany 2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y12_YMs9kCQ)6. Sudden Lights - Aija - Latvia 2023 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAjVA3qwqGk)7. Help You Fly - Ivan - Belarus 2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-13I_VF5d4k)8.  Say Yay! - Barei - 2016 Spain (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0I37W3RN_U)9. That Sounds Good To Me- Josh Dubovie - UK 2010 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8363R9XbGY10. Eastern European Funk - InCulto - Lithuania 2010 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8363R9XbGY&t=31s)

EP 9: National Selections (Authoritarian Manipulation, Public Scandal, and the Fight For A Nation's Identity)

21:06 Andrew Lambrou (Cyprus, 2023, Break a Broken Heart): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQG9YH2nCJw)
 
31:37 Troy Iwata (The Daily Show, Dash and Lily)
 
We are in the middle of National Finals season, and controversy is already swirling around some of this years' selection processes! We talk about how a country's choice of song reflects what they want to project to the world, and how authoritarians have used national selections to try to bend the identity of their countries. We also discuss some of the biggest scandals in Eurovision national finals history, and explore how broadcasters can arrive at results that people view as "legitimate."
 
Then we talk to Cyprus' representative from 2023, Andrew Lambrou. Andrew was selected by Cyprus in a surprising way, and the Australian-Cypriot-Greek singer brings his perspective to the ways in which Eurovision's universalism allows for the mixing of identities and cultures.
 
Finally, Daily Show Correspondent Troy Iwata drops by to explore some of the biggest National Finals controversies in years past, and figure out what those controversial choices say about a nation's character. It's a game we're calling "National Not-Quite Final Answer"
 
National Not Quite Final Answer
 
Belarus, 2012
 
1: Alonya - Solayoh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKewBfUE2Mg
 
2: Litesound - We Are The Heroes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JWbOKNaIAo
 
Poland 20233. Blanka - Solo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANM4CwbE0Is4. Jann - Gladiator - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYtmjhR8_8E
 
Spain 20175. Manel - Do It For Your Lover - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwS45HBhzTs6. Mirela - Contigo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEKotQh05dsSpain 20227. Chanel - SloMo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mYBiIO0pfY8. Tanxugueiras - Terra - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uGN9efcACw
 
Ukraine 20229. Alina Pash - Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAHyFdNFnrE10. Kalush Orchestra - Stefania - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKpYMb4Zwt4

EP 8: The Fandom (On the Internet, On the Ground, and Moving into the Future)

Blanka (Poland 2023) - 19:31
Her song, Solo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvQRpV1-ZhY
Theodor Andrei (Romania 2023) - 30:09
His song, DGT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRxv-AUCinQ
Pixie Aventura (Hulu's Drag Me To Dinner) - 42:16
 
On this episode, we're talking about the fandom! The unique nature of the Eurovision fandom comes from the fact that it's a sprawling international set, communicating across national boundaries, but then uniting once a year in a completely different city. We explore the network of Eurovision fanclubs under the OGAE umbrella-- with help from the president of OGAE himself, Simon Bennett. We talk about how social media has affected the fandom, the unique character of the Eurovision community and how that's been shaped by the particular nature of the song contest. Then we interview two 2023 artists, Blanka (Poland), and Theodor Andrei (Romania) who each experienced the darker side of the fandom-- we talk about how each dealt with their situation, and how, in both cases, blame for fans anger can really be laid at the feet of their national broadcasters.Finally, Pixie Aventura (Hulu's Drag Me To Dinner) stops by and shares her Eurovision expertise with us, as we evaluate which Eurovision numbers have that true camp punch to be able to survive on NY's cut throat Drag Scene.1. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81g3nx Manizha Russian Woman 2021 (Russia)2. https://youtu.be/76KOUIfDry8?si=J_dxvXKnjPpny6y9 Elina Nechayeva - La Forza - Estonia Eurovision 20183. https://youtu.be/VlpBPO9_L4E?si=KCAfnHu9vs_fWYWY - Kate Miller-Heidke - Zero Gravity - Australia Eurovision 20194. La Zarra - Évidemment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbrTtYHL5nQ5. https://youtu.be/CZQjBCvFd9E?si=vm3P2eVnglGiOhEb - Sébastien Tellier - Divine (France) Live 2008 Eurovision Song Contest
6. https://youtu.be/3Qa7_y21oOY?si=mqtUyhff5a7KtP3M - Can Bonomo - Love Me Back - Turkey - Live - Grand Final - 2012 Eurovision Song Contest
Liverpool Revenue from Eurovision: https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2023/10/26/university-joins-liverpool-in-eurovision-civic-pride/

EP 7: Eurovision and Contemporary Pop

1:07- Deep Dive- Eurovision and Contemporary Pop
21:43 Joker Out (Slovenia 2023)
39:58 Killer Notes or Killer Nodes with Telly Leung
This week we're discussing Eurovision's relationship to contemporary pop-- and specifically what it is about the rules of the world's largest song competition that complicate its relationship to the charts. We cover rules around back-up singers, auto-tune, the orchestra, and use of tracks.
Then, we talk to pop rock darlings Joker Out, who represent a new wave at Eurovision-- their hit song Carpe Diem garnered a tremendous amount of streams across platforms. They followed that up with Novi Val, releasing an English language version with music legend Elvis Costello.
 
Finally, Telly Leung (Broadway's Allegiance and Aladdin, Glee, Netflix's Warrior) stops by. In addition to being a broadway star, Telly is also a professor of vocal performance-- and he uses his knowledge of vocal technique to analyze some of Eurovision's most dramatic vocal showcases. It's a game we're calling Killer Notes or Killer Nodes.
 
Mentioned:
 
One Step Further - Bardo
Album Version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qy6S7LvtNc
Eurovision Version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSAoeFYipxc
 
Loreen - Euphoria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfo-8z86x80
 
Reiley - Breaking My Heart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04C8E7PUMQo 
 
Joker Out's Carpe Diem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfTiuZaESKs
 
From "Killer Notes or Killer Nodes": 
 
Dancing in the Rain, Spain 2014, Ruth Lorenzo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OtuM3Zvkeo
 
Harel Skaat, Milim, Israel 2010: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj0qaNnLk9M
 
Playing with Fire, Ovi and Paula Seling, Romania 2010- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9EtMZXeQZw
 
Manel Navarro Do It For Your Lover 2017 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwS45HBhzTs (the song), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWP67FyGwUI (the fail)
 
Bulgaria Krassimir Avramov 2009 - Illusion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL3VuL1Vy7w

EP 6: Politics in Eurovision’s Modern Era (Azerbaijan, Armenia, Israel, and Russia)

21:24 Interview with Fazla (Bosnia, 1993) - All The Pain In The World, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmbrJkzQ4Ik
36:20 Interview with Jeff Hiller (Somebody, Somewhere)
 
In this episode we look at politics at Eurovision in the modern era. First, we examine a series of conflicts in Europe, and discuss how Eurovision's increasingly dominant self-conception as "apolitical" has hampered its ability to consistently confront contemporary events. Then, we talk to Fazla, who escaped Sarajevo under siege in the dead of night-- dodging sniper fire and scaling a mountain barefoot to make it to Eurovision and deliver a very important message. Finally, we comedian Jeff Hiller (Somebody, Somewhere) examines how even Eurovision's campiest numbers can carry important messages in a game we're calling "Is That A Political Message in Your Pocket, Or Are You Just Happy To See Me?"
 
From "Is That A Political Message in Your Pocket or Are You Just Happy To See Me?"
 
Donatan and Cleo - We are Slavic - Poland 2014 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=VJ920cN2HmA
 
DJ BoBo - Vampires Are Alive - Switzerland 2007 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9YTasUpAjw
 
Ireland Douze Points (aka the Dustin the Turkey Song) - Ireland 2008 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ps3kxGo_gro
 
Pirates of the Sea - Wolves of the Sea - 2008 Latvia - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQy0PJEkQhA
 
Verka Serduchka, Lasha Tumbai - Ukraine 2007 -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE
 
Let 3, Mama SC! - Croatia 2023 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1-hSh10PB4

EP 5: Juries and Voting (The Controversy Around How Eurovision Chooses Winners)

19:55 - Gjon's Tears talks about his 2021 Eurovision near-win
35:00 - Michael Hsu Rosen plays a game putting the people against the powerful
 
We dive into one of the biggest controversies among Eurovision fans: how Eurovision selects its winners. Should they rely on the expertise of industry juries or should we let the people decide? We explore the evolution of Eurovision's constantly evolving selection process, and talk about the different implications of its varying forms.
 
Then we talk to Gjon's Tears, whose song Tout L'universe was a favorite of the juries, but was prevented from winning because of the televote-- eventually placing 3rd overall. We talk about everything from his experience at Eurovision, to his search for identity and belonging through music, to how his 2021 performance helped him overcome his body insecurity.
 
Finally, we chat with Michael Hsu Rosen who performed with the NYC Ballet, before going on to star in several popular Netflix hits (Pretty Smart, Glamorous). He draws on his experience operating in artistic worlds that are ruled alternately by expert and public opinion to explore why certain songs are jury favorites, and why others steal the heart of the people.
 
SONG LINKS
 
Mentioned in Deep Dive
Loreen - Tattoo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3vJfR81xO0
Kaarija - Cha Cha Cha - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHe-iZ5HSI
 
Gjon's Tears - Tout L'Univers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuimHmJMEFA
 
Mentioned in the Game
 
Keiino - Spirit in the Sky (Norway 2019) - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x799hq2
Zdob si Zdub - Trenuletul (Moldova 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9RJQPZsj8E
Il Volo - Grande Amore (Italy 2015) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TOMqZV2jA8
Destiny - Je Me Casse (Malta 2019) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TdBbLVCAzk
Tamara Todevska - Proud (North Macedonia 2019) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-NQ1a1zZ0
Konstrakta - In Corpore Sano (Serbia 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odFhYxoXiuo
Teya and Selena - Who the Hell is Edgar? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JEJe85Xmnk)
 

EP 4: Eurovision’s Language Rule (National Identity, Cultural Exchange and the Quest for Global Pop Success)

Deep Dive - Eurovision's Language Rule - 1:19
Interview - Go_A (Ukraine, 2021) - 18:19
Tops and Bottoms - Soman Chainani (The School for Good and Evil) - 32:30
 
 
In this week's episode we explore Eurovision's language rule-- which, during the eras' it's been in effect, has required that countries only submit songs in their own national languages. Defenders of the rule claim that it's necessary to preserve the diversity of language in Eurovision, while critics point out that it's unfair to require representatives from smaller nations to perform in languages unfamiliar to the televoting audience. We talk about how the on-and-off implementation of this rule tracks with larger issues at Eurovision, including the commercialization of the festival, the balance of power between larger and smaller nations, whether globalization necessarily means loss of national identity, and whether pop music is moving into a new phase of internationalism.
 
Then we talk to 2021 Ukrainian Eurovision entrants Go_A. The band is steeped in Ukrainian folklore and, in the interview, they provide a unique perspective on the importance of language choice in songwriting, and how music can communicate cultural history. Something very important right now in the shadow of Putin's war.
 
Finally, we play a Eurovision game with New York Times Best Selling novelist Soman Chainani (The School for Good and Evil). As this is the language episode, we focus specifically on the lyrics, and Soman brings the experience of watching his novel adapted into a hit Netflix movie to bear on a discussion of how language choices affect staging.
 
GO_A's Shum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCr0R8rbOAA
 
GAME CLIPS:
 
Fulenn - Alvan and Ahez (2022, France), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO07xLUlK2g
Hard Rock Hallelujah - Lordi (2006, Finland),  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAh9NRGNhUU
Monsters - Sara Aalto (2018, Finland), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEeIeQ-j2zk
Fallen Angel - Tix (2021, Norway), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJcE8G8J8VI
Heroes - Mans Zelmerlow (2015, Sweden), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sGOwFVUU0I
Fairytale - Alexander Ryback (2012, Norway), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXwgZL4zx9o

EP 3: Pop, Power, and Politics

#03: Pop, Power, and Politics
1:15 Deep Dive into The Political History of Eurovision
16:46 Jamala (Eurovision Winner, 2016, Representing Ukraine)
30:49 Brooke Gladstone (Peabody Award-winning host of On The Media)
These days, Eurovision claims to be “apolitical,” but that wasn’t always the case. We explore how Eurovision was founded in the aftermath of World War II, alongside political institutions like the UN, with the aim of stitching Europe back together. And we talk about how the contest dealt with ‘political’ songs over its first half century. 
Then we talk to Jamala, the Ukrainian singer who performed her Eurovision winning song about Stalin forcing Crimean Tatars out of their homes two years after Putin had done the same for her generation. 
Finally, we introduce American journalist Brooke Gladstone to the contest through a game where she guesses whether or not a song was censored for being too political. This leads to a conversation about how Eurovision might better function as a public square, particularly in a time of increasing conflict in Europe.
Links:
Jamala's Album QIRIM: https://open.spotify.com/album/4oiDxgPCPh6FZDNQFCLziC?si=q43ss1SUSvm6B6zHTXBCyQ
Jamala's Eurovision Winning Song, 1944:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS6eKEOdLQ
 
"Is It Political?"
 
Marry Me - Krista Siegfrids -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdU02F9lT2g
Ne ver, ne boysia - Tatu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRwsNuDX3Kg
We Don't Wanna Put In - Stephane & 3G - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P6-7Rw4xug
1944 - Jamala - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxS6eKEOdLQ
Madonna's Eurovision Performance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=VG3WkiL0d_U&t=0s
 

EP 2: Queer-o-Vision: The Queer History of Eurovision

#02: Queer-o-Vision
18:36 - Gustaph (Eurovision Contestant, 2023, Representing Belgium)
35:18 Robin de Jesus (Three time Tony Nominated actor, Netflix’s tick…tick..BOOM!, Hulu’s Welcome to Chippendales)
There’s always been something a little queer about Eurovision. In our second episode, we explore the contest’s history with the LGBTQ+ community– and how this “family show” has, at many points in its nearly 70 year existence, been way out front on LGBT rights issues. We also discuss the moments when the contest hasn’t lived up to its image.
We then talk to Gustaph, who, as a teen, left a promising career as a popstar in Belgium because of pressure to stay in the closet– only to emerge two decades later on the world’s largest stage with a song that’s unabashedly queer. The surprise hit of Eurovision this year, it catapulted to the top ten after being placed toward the bottom in the betting markets. We discuss how Gustaph’s out and proud second act reflects a radically changed culture, and the ways in which homophobia, now subtler, seeps into both the fandom and supposedly “aesthetic” criticism. 
Tony nominated American actor Robin de Jesus then stops by to play a game of “Gay or Eurovision.” As he guesses whether a number is performed by a queer artist, or if its queer aesthetics are just part of the Eurovision brand; we talk about the evolution of queer style and queer music in a time of expanding rights and mainstreaming of the community. And that conversation sounds gay to you— you have no idea how gay it gets.
 
Links:
Dana International on Pinkwashing: https://www.ynetnews.com/culture/article/r1emcq8g2
 
Ping Pong: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/may/12/israel
 
Mango TV Scandal: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-44078305
 
The Queer Politics of Eurovision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnjtzn7ZkCs
 
Charlie’s Politico Article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/20/tricky-politics-of-eurovision-during-war-00097885
 
Gay or Eurovision:
 
Give That Wolf A Banana - Subwolfer - Norway, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJjo8s3fKUM
 
Lasha Tumbai - Verka Serduchka - Ukraine, 2007 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjHJneVonE
 
Cezar - It’s My Life - Russia, 2013 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgHWFiavqjA 
 
Mahmood and Blanco - Brividi - Italy, 2022 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MgMhzfUmiA
 
Minn Hintsi Dans -Paul Oscar - Iceland, 1997 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-D4AAkYpsk
 

EP 1: Eurovision in America

Guests: David Dobkin (Director: Wedding Crashers, Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga with Will Ferrell), Jerry Mitchell (Three Time Tony Award Winning Director/Choreographer, Kinky Boots, Legally Blonde)
Eurovision is the most watched song contest in the world– with viewership reaching 200 million people. It’s larger than the Superbowl! But while Eurovision songs have charted 28 times in America, 19 of those times came before 1974. This was shortly followed by a dry spell that featured only one Eurovision song on the US charts in nearly 50 years. What happened? And why, over the past three years, have we seen a resurgence– with Eurovision acts touring major venues in the states, garnering awards and press coverage, and, yes, charting? 
We explore these questions, and then talk with David Dobkin, the director of the movie responsible for the suddenly growing American interest in Eurovision– taking a look behind the scenes at the Will Ferrell vehicle that streamed #1 on Netflix, and tracing David’s personal journey of discovering and falling in love with the contest as he made the film.
Then we introduce Eurovision to Tony Award Winning Director Jerry Mitchell live on the podcast, with a game we call “Tops and Bottoms with Jerry Mitchell.” As we sip palomas in his Fire Island home, Jerry brings his expertise, honed through years of staging Broadway’s biggest musicals, to help us evaluate what makes a successful Eurovision production number.
Theme Song - Music: Tim Rosser, Lyrics: Charlie Sohne, Vocals: Magnus Riise
TIMECODES:
Deep Dive, “Why is America Waking Up to Eurovision Now?” - 1min14sec
Interview with David Dobkin, Director “Eurovision Song Contest: The Story of Fire Saga” - 16min39sec
Interview with Jerry Mitchell, Tony Winning Director/Choreographer of Kinky Boots and Legally Blonde - 38min54sec
LINKS:
Charlie’s Politico Article: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/05/20/tricky-politics-of-eurovision-during-war-00097885
Eurovision Songs on the Billboard Hot 100:
https://www.aussievision.net/post/every-eurovision-song-to-chart-on-the-us-billboard-hot-100
Success of the Eurovision Movie
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/06/28/a-new-netflix-offering-has-unseated-floor-is-lava-for-the-1-spot/?sh=6320f9734271
 
EUROVISION US CHART TOPPERS MENTIONED: 
Rosa Linn - Snap 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIKIgjLGf98
Duncan Laurence - Arcade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eztx7Wr8PtE
Maneskin - Beggin’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg72z08aTXY
 
WATCH EUROVISION: THE STORY OF FIRE SAGA: https://www.netflix.com/title/80244088
 
FROM ‘TOPS AND BOTTOMS WITH JERRY MITCHELL’:
Kaarija, Cha Cha Cha (Finland 2023) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHe-iZ5HSI
Konstrakta, In Corpore Sano (Serbia 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po7HDHTBBE0
Reiley, Breaking My Heart (Denmark 2023)  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1DvuxpKkHY
Anna Bergendahl, This Is My Life (Sweden 2010) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNk6CZ77ags
Cornelia Jakobs, Hold Me Closer (Sweden 2022) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWDThAfryW4
Kate Ryan, Je T’adore (Belgium 2006) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JHnre0q3ow
Loreen, Tattoo (Sweden 2023) -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mCELuFz5I